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CW Groan


#1

Is it just my imagination or are the antics in the cw pile-ups starting to become obnoxious.

Why do the alligators insist on giving their callsigns many times even while the activator is trying to reply to a chaser?

Why can’t we all just send our callsigns once and let the strongest signal win instead of repeatedly pushing callsigns causing huge QRM?

I appreciate that there are more ops in the pile-ups as Sota grows, but that doesn’t mean we have to start behaving like animals!!

Sorry for the moan.

73
Mike GW0DSP


#2

In reply to GW0DSP:
It`s just those unruly cw ops Mike - much more gentlemanly atmosphere on ssb.


#3

In reply to G1INK:

In reply to GW0DSP:
It`s just those unruly cw ops Mike - much more gentlemanly atmosphere
on ssb.

Whats SSB… oh yes, I remember, some people once used that for Sota in the old days I think, I’ll google it to make sure:-)

Mike


#4

In reply to G1INK:
On the other hand CW ops can’t say “OOOLA OOLAA”!


#5

Some of us still do use SSB Mike, in my case because I never really had any interest in CW it was just an hurdle I had to climb to get the HF licence.

I ponder over using CW now and again (when theres no one on SSB), but I just can’t cope with the receiving on a noisy / busy frequency.

Being virtually forced (by my morse Instructor) to have a CW QSO on the day I got my G0 licence really didn’t do anything other than put me off (and I’ve never repeated it).

Stewart


#6

In reply to G0LGS:

Hi Stewart, please note the :slight_smile: in my comment which was as flipant as INK’s comment.

73 Mike


#7

In reply to GW0DSP:

That is the sign of a dedicated CW alligator Mike. Their creed being that if they cannot make the contact then they make sure that no-one else does.

You can always recognise the top alligators, they send their callsign at least twice then add BK or AR which has no meaning in a call, except to disrupt.

73
Roy


#8

In reply to GW0DSP: As you know, I too use exclusively ssb on hf, and seem to be one of the few hf activators currently around. Sorry I’m not out today, and tommorow the XYL has the car for the West mid show. Perhaps the weather will improve for the end of the coming week.

Don’t know why I’m still trying to get my cw up to a speed (rx) and accuracy (tx) when I can use it on air. Suppose it’s because it’s the only way I’m going to get a 'Sloth for G6DTN.

As the alligators are known, why not list their calls on the reflector and ask them to justify their actions (but I bet they wouldn’t). Also gives cw users (if they don’t know of them) the opportunity to refuse to acknowledge their calls. Not in the spirit of amateur radio, I know, but the cw operations on SOTA that I’ve heard are hardly conducted in the spirit of amateur radio anyway.

Regards, Dave, G6DTN/M0DFA


#9

In reply to M0DFA:

Dave, one alligator just gave his callsign 6 times in a row, 6 times, unbelievable behaviour, how desperate can they be for just a few points? Another op made a derogatory remark about it on air. Although it’s very annoying, I certainly don’t condone the passing of remarks on air about it.

73

Mike GW0DSP


#10

Hi Mike (and others interested in this thread)

I heard the debacle this morning on 7032 KHz± and was among the mess trying to get my report being sent to me by Jure S57XX/P and OK1XGL/P (apologies - Ops name not known). I would say there are various reasons for it. People “walking before they can run” on CW and desperate not to miss out on points, people not hearing the activator properly and wading in, and a general need for people to sharpen up their act. A good trick if your are struggling for one reason or another is to wait 5-10 mins and then wade in again. Something I do regularly. Yes, you miss out on an occasional QSO when the Op QRTs early for whatever reason, but it saves making a complete Plonker of yourself and getting a reputation, and yes we all make the occasional mistake due to our enthusiasm!

Sending your call once is OK providing everyone else does the same, if I do this and it’s busy I usually have to ask for a repeat as I get the report but don’t know who the activator is going back to. That’s happens almost on a daily basis these days and several times in a day if it’s very active day like today! More often than not I send the call twice, sometimes once if the activator is strong enough to be heard with two 250 Hz filters over the alligators. Fortunately some of these op’s don’t have good filtering and call slightly off the QRG anyway - that helps! Maybe I should not have said that as they may go out and buy some good crystals filters and make the situation even worse.

If I do get on 40m CW next week with GT7OOO/P don’t be surprised if I work split and listen up 1 KHz± to help thin out the melee if there is no other way!

I don’t activate much but I usually make a mental note of alligators as I am working through the chasers and then call them right at the end of the activation myself. Often they aren’t there then or they can’t hear me!

73 Phil G4OBK

(GT7OOO/P in GD Isle of Man next week)

PS OK now Reg - I hit the enter key before I had penned the message!


#11

In reply to GW0DSP:

I find this wryly amusing since we were always being told how gentlemanly the CW ops are compared to phone ops!:slight_smile:

It looks to me like it is time to think about starting to use split operation, because if it is like this now, what is it going to be like several years hence with much of the world adopting SOTA and (hopefully) plenty of sunspots?

The point about SOTA is that unlike DXpeditions or many IOTA activations, a SOTA activation is a target of fleeting opportunity and those with a competitive streak will do whatever it takes to get their points during a brief activation. And its not just CW either, I reproved one “gentleman” on the 18th for repeatedly calling Caroline on BW-003 whilst she was talking.

Get used to it, its going to get worse! Sorry to be a pessimist…

73

Brian G8ADD


#12

In reply to G4OBK:

Hi Mike > >

(GT7OOO/P in GD Isle of Man next week)

PS OK now Reg - I hit the enter key before I had penned the message!

Will hopefully get you s2s from DM/BW next week Phil. Have a good week in GD.

73
Mike GW0DSP


#13

In reply to G4OBK:
Might not be a bad idea for all activators to QSX up 1 at busy times ie weekends (if of course they have split capability).
73 Cris
GM4FAM


#14

In reply to A3633:
Not sure of the relevance of your analogy, Reg, specially as funnels for high speed use are designed with spiral fluting to improve flow! :wink:

Seems to me there are palliatives available, such as split operation, education and even sanctions against the worst offenders, but the fundamental problem is too many chasers for necessarily short activations, and there is no cure for that.

Perhaps if activators did fewer summits in a day and spent more time on each activation things would ease for a while, but they want their points, too, and the program is still expanding!

73

Brian G8ADD


#15

In reply to G8ADD:
I’m not sure if anyone else heard several QRS’s while Norby was operating earlier. Did he get through?! I did not wait to find out - had to get back to the hoovering!!


#16

In reply to G8ADD:

In reply to A3633:

Seems to me there are palliatives available, such as split operation,
education and even sanctions against the worst offenders, but the
fundamental problem is too many chasers for necessarily short
activations, and there is no cure for that.
73

Brian G8ADD

It would be half of the battle if the chasers would just listen.

On Klaus’s second summit he was QRV from 1316, because he was very qsb with me, I waited until his pile-up thinned out and worked him @ 1343, still the same points half hour after his first CQ.

It’s easy to accidentally sound bad on a day like today where QSB is very bad, you can call in then Murphy takes over every time and you cant hear your reply in the QSB, these are genuine mistakes and are spotted instantly.

I originally referred to the blatant bad operating skills of a growing minority, it is those few who cause so much frustration.

73
Mike


#17

In reply to GM4FAM:

Might not be a bad idea for all activators to QSX up 1 at busy times

Finishing the post now… :slight_smile: I used to think that too Cris…

…but as Roy G4SSH pointed out some time ago, at busy times there may be activators on 7.031, 7.032 and 7.033. Split operation would probably cause chaos in that case.

I’m afraid it’s more disciplined simplex operation we need at really busy times.

73 Marc G0AZS


#18

In reply to G0AZS:
pointed out some time ago, at busy times there may be activators on 7.031, 7.032 and 7.033. Split operation would probably cause chaos in that case;

not into cw but what is the bandwith for cw, when i’ve been on 40 meters in the past i’ve heard cw as far up the band as 07-052 into the psk31 side. so why does everyone stay around 7.031, 7.032 and 7.033. spread your wings like ssb operators do on 7-060, 7-118, And my opinion about chasers/activators on ssb, after listening to the debates, if no one chases or activates then no one is going to do ssb 100%.
just seems to be if a chaser spots an activator and no one else answers in 3 minutes then he’s qsy’dto another band,
just a short clip it.
Steve m0sgb


#19

In reply to G0AZS:

The lack of discipline arises from the fear of failure.

To labour the obvious, suppose an average contact takes X minutes and the activation time slot is Y minutes, then the maximum number N of contacts that can take place is Y/X. All can go well until the number of chasers © after the activation approaches Y/X (=N), which is the point where anxiety sets in and discipline begins to deteriorate. Once C>N the chasers know that some will fail to get their contact and at this point they divide into those that will maximise their chances by good technique and those that will maximise their chances by making it hard for the activator to hear anybody else. At this point the contact time starts to exceed X and there are more people disappointed.

OK, obvious and pseudo scientific, but the point is that activations become analogous to the opening days of a big DX-pedition and in all the years of the DXCC it has proved impossible to improve discipline until the demand approaches saturation near the end of the DX-peditions.

I see no attainable answer.

73

Brian G8ADD


#20

In reply to M0SGB:

not into cw but what is the bandwith for cw, when i’ve been on 40 meters in
the past i’ve heard cw as far up the band as 07-052

If you mean where is CW allowed on 40m then it’s from 7.000 to 7.199 i.e. anywhere at all. There are centres of activity for QRP and SOTA.

so why does everyone stay around 7.031, 7.032 and 7.033.

So that they will be heard and worked. If you call on 7.032 you know there’ll be someone listening. With the variation in propagation at this point in the solar cycle hopefully there’ll be someone, somewhere in EU, who can hear you. Of course there is no reason to prevent a QSY once you have started a QSO. That and working splits will help. Try calling in CW on 7.185 and see how many people find you!

Reading between the lines in this thread it seems there are a few CW chasers who seem to be just a little bit too competitive (see below) hence the complaints. It’s common to all modes, there’s always a few who hog the DX. How often do you hear someone say “well you seem to have a huge pileup so I wont hold you up and so I’ll say 73 now and let you get cracking with working that huge pile as we know how short these 2m sporadic E openings can. 73 now and enjoy the pileup…” when they could say “thanks for the call and 73”. Naming and shaming is the way to stamp out bad habits. In some cases the operator may not be aware of their bad habit. In other cases it’s sheer bloody mindedness. I can vouch that if anyone comes onto my frequency with some nasty operating style to the detriment of others then I note their call and there will be times when I get selective deafness to them. I’ve not had to do that to any SOTA chasers yet but I still have my list of bad boys from my 2m/70cms contesting days.

competitve: adj. characterized by an urge to compete, a euphemism for radio hams who will go to any lengths to work a contact with utter disregard and contempt for all others on the band!

Andy
MM0FMF