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CEPT and Club Callsigns


#1

I thought it would be best to ‘move this’ on to a separate discussion (I have removed my postings re CEPT from the G4YSS NP-009 thread).

To recall,

Andy MM0FMF initially commented:-

“One small point for UK amateurs to bear in mind, since the UK licence changed to the new lifetime version, club callsigns can’t be used abroad under CEPT TR61/01 rules. I only found this out last year as I’ve used many club calls in Europe over the years. They used to be legal under CEPT but not any more. Which is a shame.”

I replied:-

According to Section 16, “Where this licence is a …Full (Club) License, the Licensee may operate in countries which have implemented CEPT Recommendation T/R 61-01…”. To me that means you can use the club callsign (but without the Regional Secondary Locator ‘X’, ‘S’ etc) or am I missing something Andy ?

and Andy then commented:-

Well Mike I have to admit confusion now. I can quite clearly recall reading something (somewhere) that showed that club operation under CEPT was no longer allowed. But I’m blowed if I can recall where. Yes, I would agree that section 16 says you can use a club call under CEPT. Now, I’m going to be annoyed till I find that reference which said you couldn’t.


#2

So picking up from there, I did find a set of FAQs, the relevant part of which is posted below. The document is dated 18 March 2010.

"These FAQs have been developed by International Radio Amateur Union (IARU) Region 1 and reviewed by WGRA Project Team 2 (Radio Amateur issues). The FAQs can neither be used nor referenced instead of the actual applicable regulation and only intend to serve as a guide.

Can club callsigns be used?

No, personal call signs only, should be used. This is because club callsigns are not recognised in the equivalence tables and the identity and licence class of the operator are not clear".

The start of this document clearly states that it is only a guide, but the guideline seems to directly contradict what it says in my licence.

Any comments ?

Mike G4BLH


#3

In reply to G4BLH:

I have a UK Club Licence, as I am the licensee of M0ADJ.

On page 1 of the licence, it says “Licence Class: Amateur Club Radio Licence”.

In paragraph 2 (1) (f), it says “The Licensee may operate the radio equipment, where this licence is a Full Licence only, in countries which have implemented CEPT Recommendation T/R 61-01”.

As this is a “Club Licence” as distinct from a “Full Licence”, I take this to mean that the club callsign can not be used outside the UK under CEPT rules.

Incidentally, on page 1 of my personal licence (G3NYY), it says “Licence Class: Amateur Full Radio Licence”.

The difference seems pretty clear to me.

73,
Walt (G3NYY)


#4

In reply to G3NYY & G4BLH

I knew I’d seen something about CEPT and club licences somewhere!

Like Walt, my club licence for G(S)3PYU says it’s an Amateur Club Radio Licence. Moreover, on the GS3PYU (that’s the call shown, not GM3PYU) the CEPT equivalent class box is empty. On my other full licences it shows CEPT class 1 and I think this further reinforces Walt’s interpretation.

It does look like the licence is poorly worded and editted. No surprise there considering it’s from OFJOKE, sorry OFCOM. However, the new licence is much better than the old one, CEPT club changes and some unattended operation changes excepted. The problem is asking civil servants for a definitite answer is always, but always, a bad idea as they nearly always tend to say no and impose further limitations. I’d leave it as ambiguous.

Andy
MM0FMF


#5

In reply to G3NYY:

As this is a “Club Licence” as distinct from a “Full
Licence”, I take this to mean that the club callsign can not be
used outside the UK under CEPT rules.

The difference seems pretty clear to me.

So if it is that clear Walt, what exactly is the Full (Club) License mentioned in Section 16 that does allow the Licensee to operate in countries which have implemented CEPT Recommendation T/R 61-01 ?

Regards, Mike


#6

In reply to G4BLH:

I seem to recall that licences could be either “A” or “B” in the days when there was a distinction between those with HF (Class A) & those for above 30MHz only (Class B). As there are now only Full, Intermediate & Novice classes this may refer to a Full club licence, although I am not aware of many Intermediate or Novice club licences or indeed whether they exist.

73,

Mark G0VOF


#7

In reply to G4BLH:

So if it is that clear Walt, what exactly is the Full (Club) License mentioned >in Section 16 that does allow the Licensee to operate in countries which have >implemented CEPT Recommendation T/R 61-01 ?

A misprint or typo or poor proof-reading!

Andy
MM0FMF


#8

In reply to MM0FMF:

A misprint or typo or poor proof-reading!

The latter I suspect Andy,

Mike


#9

In reply to G4BLH:

Yes. I remember the poor proof reading of the NoV that effectively abolished the Morse requirement for HF access on old B licencees for a 2-3week period after 6m was made generally available. Hastily rectified when noticed by the RA!

It’s a shame really. Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m sure that pre-lifetime licences, pre-FL, pre-novice, a club licence was nothing more than an A or B licence held ON BEHALF OF A CLUB by someone who also held a licence of the same type for their own callsign. In which case there was no problem with CEPT operation. Now that a special Club licence type exists we have a problem.

Perhaps you can apply for a reciprocal licence for CEPT operation by a club? :wink:

Andy
MM0FMF