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Callsign/P when in SOTA or not


#21

In reply to M0LEP:

For instance, the rules in Kenya say that you
must add “/P” (or “/M”) if you are not at your declared address

I don’t remember whether it was stated like this in previous Spanish regulation, but this is the meanning that the /P has to me.
In my interpretation of /P, the P stands more for Provisional location, different to the officially declared as base location, rather than Portable, which might be interpreted more as walking while using a portable rig like a handie or a FT-817 with its rubber flex antenna for instance.

Best 73 de Guru - EA2IF


#22

In reply to 2E0YYY:

I’ve never understood why the need to sign /p or /m was removed in the first >place or indeed, the need to even keep a logbook.

Because nobody official cares and there’s nobody to actually to do the checking. If you can’t check people are following the rules there is little point having the rule in the 1st place.

Andy
MM0FMF


#23

In reply to EA2IF:

In North America (VE, W), there is no FCC or legal requirement to append /p or /# (e.g. /2, /6) when operating away from your home/registered QTH.

Most NA hams use the /p out of courtesy to indicate they are operating from a temporary location. And it does create some interest as a lot of folks are curious as to where you are located, esp. on CW. On SSB, especially when you are CQing, announcing “portable on the summit of Mt Hood” attracts a lot of non-SOTA chasers.

I would agree with Guru that spotters should follow the lead of the Activator, i.e. if the Activator is signing /p and/or the Activator Alert is /p then spot the call the same way. We do have a fair number of folks in NA using LoTW which does differentiate between callsign/p and callsign alone. It is confusing if a spotter adds /p when the Activator doesn’t.

73, Guy/n7un
aka nS0TA


#24

In reply to MM0FMF:

If you can’t check people are following the rules there is
little point having the rule in the 1st place.

Despite the obvious truth of that statement, Andy, amateur radio loves to entangle itself in all manner of unenforceable rules. Power levels for licence classes and contest categories is the most obvious example, but many award schemes have rules that rely on self-policing for enforcement, and we all know how successful that was in the banking and journalism sectors!

Perhaps these unenforceable rules should be called guidance …

73 de Les, G3VQO


#25

In reply to G3VQO:

unless he’s using “/QRP”, or “stroke standing on one leg”, or some

…in which case he gets ignored, most likely.


#26

In reply to G3VQO:

I suppose in the case of SOTA we could recommend that people take “selfies” on the summit to show that they were there. OTOH, I’m sure we’ve all been on summits when the wind was too strong to hold a camera still, or the clag was so thick that nothing much could be seen beyond your face!

However imperfect it might be, in the end we have to trust the activators!

73

Brian G8ADD


#27

In reply to W4DOW:

Hi Dow,

70 of the last 71 spots have been posted /p.

So /p looks just fine to me…

73 Mike
2E0YYY


#28

In reply to G8ADD:
Selfies? only?
It could be some spanish award involving some kind of txmission from special geodetic measuring points in which you must take (and send to the MT) selfies (with the mentioned sign pole on view)…
But, if you asked to, you must also present video records containing date signature.
Why is not the self-policing principle be applied?
Imagine…
:wink:
73 de Mikel/MT (at the tube)


#29

In reply to W4DOW:

If for any reason this IS NOT wanted on the SOTAwatch2 Spots I will stop putting it on my spots.

Ideally, I’d say if the activator’s adding “/P” then the spots would have “/P”, and if the activator’s not adding “/P” then the spots wouldn’t include it either. Of course the attentive chaser will listen carefully enough to determine exactly what callsign the activator’s using, but it can be confusing when they don’t match.

There’s also a minor side-issue of interpretation, especially on phone modes. In Morse that “dah-di-di-dah-dit di-dah-dah-dit” is unambiguous, but when I’m using the microphone and say “Mike Zero Lima Echo Papa Portable” am I reasonable in expecting folk will include the un-spoken “stroke” and log that as “M0LEP/P”?

73, Rick M0LEP


#30

In reply to M0LEP:

say “Mike Zero Lima Echo Papa Portable”

No, no, no…

Mexico Number Zero London Edinburgh Portugal Portable… that’s much less readable Rick and hence is the best phonetics. Especially good is the almost rhyme/alliteration of Portugal Portable though you should have the word “Stroke” or “oblique” in there for maximum naffness!

Use that set of phonetics along with some phrases from “you’re 5 & 0 here”, “the first personal would be”, “I’m running 25 whiskies” etc.

:slight_smile:

It really doesn’t matter what you use but be consistent. I always try to operate the same way on the key, same way of calling, same frequencies, same way of working chasers and sending info. That’s because the top chasers listen to how people operate and know their habits. If you always operate in a similar style then the chasers who listen will work you easily.

Andy
MM0FMF


#31

In reply to W4DOW:

83 spots in the last 12 hours

In the last 24 hours:
32 activations spotted
12 represented by a single spot
20 represented by more than one spot

Of those 20:
15 activations gave the same callsign for all spots
1 contained a single spot with an obvious typo in the callsign
4 contained a mix of spots with and without “/P”

Those 4 were:
KD5ZZK on W0M/SF-026 - 4 spots without, and 1 spot with "/P"
KD5ZZK on W0M/SF-033 - 4 spots without, and 2 spots with "/P"
W1DMH on W1/NL-024 - 2 spots without and 2 spots with "/P"
NA6MG on W6/CT-214 - 10 spots without and 1 spot with “/P”

I didn’t hear any of those 4 activations, so I don’t know whether they were actually sending “/P” or not. If they weren’t, then the spots with “/P” are potentially confusing (and vice-versa). It is of course also possible that they sometimes sent “/P” and other times didn’t.

73, Rick M0LEP (who’s all for folks being consistent in the way they operate :wink:


#32

In reply to MM0FMF:

I always say, ‘lima america sierra’ because I’m from the West Country and simply can’t say ‘alpha’ :slight_smile:


#33

In reply to M0LEP:

As a chaser of both NA and EU activators, I recognize the different practices regarding the use of /P. At the end of the day, it only makes sense to follow the lead of the operator.

As an example, I’ve got NA6MG in my log at least 30 times over the past year and because of my proximity to California, I can (and do) listen to him activate on multiple bands. Dan is very active and has a good signal that gets picked up by the RBN. Dan is also active with APRS and he self spots with APRS. In all of this time, I cant recall a time that I have heard Dan sign /P during an activation nor can I recall a time when I’ve seen Dan self spot /P. Its always NA6MG. The only time you see /P in reference to Dans call is if someone else spots him and adds the /P their own. Dan is also a LOTW user. Every one of my contacts in LOTW has been confirmed by Dan without the use of /P.

This circles back to what has been said before…follow the lead of the Activator. If the Activator is signing /P then log it exactly that way. If the activator is only using their call, log it just that way. The inconsistent use of /P on SOTAwatch appears to be when spots get added to SOTAwatch from chasers that are not following suit with how the operator is identifying. I can see how this would cause considerable confusion to those just starting off in SOTA.


#34

In reply to W4DOW:

A lot of those Activators self Spot when they are QRV with the /p after their call

…so I took a closer look. Of the 4 activations I’d found with a mix of spots with and without “/P” (and these are the only ones where there’s potential for confusion), one has two spots which might be self spots, both without “/P”, and two which clearly aren’t self-spots, both with “/P”, so the jury’s out on that one. The other 3 activations all have obvious self-spots, and the self-spots are all without “/P”.

Sure, the majority of activators do seem to use “/P”, but if an activator chooses not to use “/P” then it’d be nice if the spots respected that, and didn’t have “/P” added when no “/P” was sent.

73, Rick M0LEP


#35

In reply to W4DOW:
What a lively discussion we’ve got about this today!
As I said before I use /P when in an operation away from my licensed station address. Not only SOTAs but also when on summer holidays locations.

For each single activation we do, the locator is different so a new account should be created on eQSL and LOTW in order to properly confirm QSOs.

I’ve been doing it so far on eQSL and that’s why I have a big number of different accounts for EA2IF/P associated to my main EA2IF one.
I haven’t done it yet on LOTW as it’s a bit tedious and I confess that, with the little time I have available for this, I’m getting a bit tired of it and have serious temptations lately to stop confirming QSOs at all, at least, until I feel like starting to do it again.

Regarding the use of /P or not and the spots on Sotawatch2, I 100% support what N7UN wrote here earlier and others later: spotters should follow the lead of the Activator, i.e. if the Activator is signing /p and/or the Activator Alert is /p then spot the call the same way.

Best 73 de Guru - EA2IF


#36

In reply to N5XL:

I wish this thread would fade away.

" If the Activator is signing /P then log it exactly that way. If the activator is only using their call, log it just that way."

I think you are absolutely right - work with what you hear.

Night night
Mike G6TUH


#37

In reply to W4DOW:
Yes I have Worked NA6MG/P = 78 TIMES and DF2GN/p 53 Times and have got almost that many QSL Cards From DF2GN/p via eqsl.cc all with the /p after his call…
W4DOW

I would expect Klaus to confirm with a /P as that is consistent for how he activates…I would not expect Dan to confirm qso’s with /P as that is NOT how he activates. If you have confirmations from Dan as /P when on SOTA activations, then I’m not sure of what to say. Perhaps Dan is the best person to consult to see how he operates and logs and confirms.

Sure, the majority of activators do seem to use “/P”, but if an activator chooses not to use “/P” then it’d be nice if the spots respected that, and didn’t have “/P” added when no “/P” was sent.
73, Rick M0LEP

Agreed.

Regarding the use of /P or not and the spots on Sotawatch2, I 100% support what N7UN wrote here earlier and others later: spotters should follow the lead of the Activator, i.e. if the Activator is signing /p and/or the Activator Alert is /p then spot the call the same way.
Best 73 de Guru - EA2IF

Agreed

I wish this thread would fade away.
Mike G6TUH

Agreed

Best to all
N5XL


#38

In reply to EA2IF:

Lots of good comments in this thread.

My thoughts:

I prefer NO "/P"
No rules require the use of “/P” for US hams
However the Activator signs his/her call sign should rule
It should be obvious that anyone being spotted on SOTAWatch is on a summit and therefore portable
Chasers can log an Activator however they see fit

Best argument I’ve seen here regarding use of “/P” is for possible S2S identification by the Activator in a pileup. I have also experienced chasing Activators sending “S2S” when trying to break a pileup. Most savvy Chasers will stand by until the S2S is successfully completed and, only then, resume calling. One could argue that “S2S” is perhaps more unique than “/P.” At least in the SOTA world “S2S” is universally understood.

73,
Bill Gerth
W4RK
SOTA-USA
WØM-Missouri
Association Manager


#39

In reply to W4RK:

In reply to EA2IF:

Lots of good comments in this thread.

My thoughts:

I prefer NO “/P”

Hi Bill,

I think that we’ve established beyond all reasonable doubt, that nearly all activation spots are posted /p, simply because, activators ARE portable and more to the point, virtually all activators call cq SOTA /portable and sign /portable.

If this were not the case, I may have some sympathy with your POV.

This thread is a classic case of mountains an molehills.

73 Mike
2E0YYY


#40

In reply to W4DOW:

Hi Dow, no problem. My activation is very early tomorrow, so we may not make the trip.

Depending on work commitments, I may squeeze another one in later.

73 Mike
2E0YYY