Hi Graeme,
I doubt something from a manufacturer (possibly of Asian origin in broken English) is going to impress the authorities in a (e.g.) French airport. Something with a government stamp of approval or a known international organisation like IATA is what is needed.
Such a document needs to be accepted by the airline, the security check officiers (most likely from a sub-contracted external company, with no backup to check documents) and possibly also the Customs and Excise officiers.
When the batteries are originally imported via freight plane, there a document as you describe is most likely needed but not for Joe Public taking his âtoysâ on holiday with him.
By the time you add up the cost of buying batteries, leads connectors, chargers, safe charging bags and then turn up at the airport trying to get through security, would it not be easier to invest in a battery that you can provide the relevant documentation to those responsible.
On another note if you travel by car via ferry check the regulations of dangerous goods before you travel, I lost 30l of diesel last year at Belfast docks the security bloke must have been a culti.
After couple of well slept nights I have started concentrate to find solution how I could pass security checking without practical problems. So, I read fast (not too accurately) the document âIATA Lithium Battery Guidance Revised 9 March 2016â. And the summary is if I had external Lithium Ion Battery, I could bring it fear through security checking.
Well, I googled Lithium Ion Batteries and found lot of options. eBay sells several cheap 12V Li-ion Rechargeable Batteries with different capacity. Charger seems to come with the battery. I thought to order couple of those and test them before my DM/OK trip â they are very attractive. If somebody has experiences about those? Good and bad are valid!
It comes with a European (Schuko style) charger rater than the US flat blade type.
I canât comment on Litium Ion except that they seem to be the technology used in both Smart Phones and Laptops these days, so Airport security should know what they are at least.
as far as I remember it has been already mentioned here on the reflector that Lithium Ion battery is just the generic term of a family of Li-ion based batteries Wikipedia LiIon battery & Lithium Polymer battery with e.g. Lithium Polymer or Lithium Iron Phosphate being concrete examples.
I donât own one of the advertised batteries, but based on the provided info, one should keep the following in his mind:
As the label on your battery shows it would be a Lithium Polymer battery. Consequently the statement of being a 12Volt battery is in my eyes misleading. I would assume that itâs a 3S battery with a nominal voltage of 11.1V .
It looks like that, due to the inexpensive price, it does not come with a balancing charger. A balancing charger is highly recommended for LiPo batteries, at least for safety reasons.
Hi Stephan,
Where do you see on the Label, Lithium Polymer? I can only see all information saying it is a Litmium Ion battery. While both Lithium Polymer and Lthium Ion are part of the Lithium battery family, they are not the same thing. Lithium Polymer batteries can give a lot higher current which is why they are used a lot with radio controlled models, whose motors need this. Lithium Polymer can also be charged relatively quickly (with a balanced charger). Lithium ion basically replaced NiCad batteries in small electrical devices.
The information further down in the eBay advert suggests safe charging through over charge/discharge protection and a charing time of over 8 hours (however you can judge yourself whether that will be the case using the simple âwall wartâ switched mode PSU module):
This Rechargeable battery is a 12V 3000mah Li-ion Battery and it is specially designed for powering the system device which use 12V DC power. You can use this battery to power our powerful wireless transmitter, CCTV camera and so on. Suitable for your need. Super storage capacity. With working indicator. Specially designed for the system devicswhich use 12V power. Built-in ON/OFF switch to save power usage. Large mah value means long battery life. Over-charge/discharge protection.
Battery Charging Method
Open the battery switch to the âONâ at the red light on the charger indicates when charging starts (if battery is full charge,the power green light will remain unchanged); charging time is generally more than 8 hours; until the plugâs red light becomes green, the battery is fully charged.
Specification Size:875720mm(battery) Color: Blue Capacity: 3000mAh. Battery type: Rechargeable Li-on battery. Input voltage: 12.6V Output voltage: 10.8~12.6 DC Output current:1-2A Line interface specification 5.5 * 2.1 MM Product life: circulation charge and discharge more than 500 times
Package include
1X 12V 3000mah Li-ion Battery 1X EU plug
I think the 8 hours plus to recharge the battery might not fit your needs when travelling Saku? The price is very good, but as always, you get what you pay for, so this battery may not last as long as a LIPO at about twice the price or a LifePO at about 4 times the price.
In answer two Simonâs question - the output current is listed as 1-2 amps only. This is probably OK to power an FT-817 (just). As for the charger it could be substituted with a good 12.6v PSU as no balanced charging is needed here, only slow charging.
Well spotted Ed - I missed that. Indeed mine would power the 817, but not a small robot project that was taking the upper end of that range at peak.
Iâm quite sceptical about the stated capacity. Mine didnât last many cycles. The cells are now sitting in the garden swelling gently, awaiting safe disposal.
Looks like the comment was in response to the battery that OH2NOS linked, and if you look the photos on the ebay page (see here: http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/JQkAAOSwNSxVZpAq/s-l1600.jpg) youâll see it says âsuper polymer lithium-ion batteryâ. The rest of the packaging seems more or less identical to the one you linked, other than the block of text at the top which says âsuper rechargeable li-ion batteryâ instead. I doubt the internals are different, though.
It appears that the charging indicator lights are on the power supply not the battery, suggesting that at least part of the control circuitry lies therein and it would be very unwise to try to use any other supply to charge the battery.
I do not want cause any confusion with my eBay examples! I understood that if I would take external battery into Airplane, it MUST be Li-ion battery. So, I am now trying to found some appropriate one for my needs and this is the reason why I started to google.
Do not concentrate what is written (and what not) in the battery in my example. Feedback given tells to me that this example is not âwinnerâs choiceâ. Let me know which Supplier in Europe is selling appropriate ones with charger required? And if you can give an Internet link that better.
I put the same question into Facebookâs Finnish Ham Group, but so far I have not got any answers. Do I ask something too difficult? Anyway I can operate with internal battery and reduce power to 1 W if needed, but this do not allow me activate so many summits during the week as I wanted. Still I have the option buy Yuasa battery from Germany.
Saku, perhaps you can find 18650 Li-ion cells locally. They are quite common now for bicycle lights and vaping (electric cigarettes). Of course you would also need a 3-cell holder, which is not so common.
The e-cigarette use brings with it various scare stories. Routine use of Li-ion cells in close proximity to ones face during high-current discharge perhaps adds some extra danger! I use cells with internal protection (I and V limits) for my radio gear, but these are a little less common and add slightly to the price.
It might be worth remembering that a big block of high quality NiMH cells (eg. eneloop) is better in terms of energy by weight and volume than lead acid batteries and is cheaper, safer and easier to replace than lithium ion batteries. They compare favourably with the cylindrically packaged lithium cells like 18650s which are not much lighter for a given capacity. Chargers are also easier to come by, and the cells are probably usable in some of your other gadgets, too. Youâre unlikely to have any problems with airport security with this sort of standard AA cell.
And also the mentioned voltage range of 10.8V to 12.6V are speaking for a 3S LiPo battery pack.
I did not say that Lithium Ion and Lithium Polymer are the same thing. But Lithium Ion is the generic term for a whole family of rechargeable batteries that are based on Lithium ion technology. Take a look at the referenced Wiki-pages for more information:
A lithium polymer battery, or more correctly lithium-ion polymer battery (abbreviated variously as LiPo, LIP, Li-poly and others), is a rechargeable battery of lithium-ion technology in a pouch format.
According to your following sugggestion:
if it is actually a LiPo battery (and in my opinion it is) using a simple PSU without LiPo-charge-control is the best way to start an accidental firework Please be careful!
LiPo charging is not too complicated, chips exist to control the process so you can roll your own design or build an application note. Or cheaper, buy something with decent reputation.
You can fast charge LiPOs by applying up to 1C constant charging current (fixed current varying voltage) until you see 4.1V/cell then switch to 4.2V constant voltage charging till the current drawn is 0.1C.When reacing 4.1V these cells will be around 50-60% charged. Or you can charge at a low constant current (less than 0.2C) until you get to 4.1V when the cell is just about fully charged. There is more complexity to cope with very discharged cells and you cannot leave the cells on charge, you need to switch to periodic top-up i.e. let them discharge a bit then charge back up at 4.2V
For what my charger cost (ÂŁ4.50 inc p&p) I couldnât be bothered building.
Hi Stephan, as pointed out by another person on the list, it appears the wording on battery on the US eBay advert is different to the one on the European (German) eBay site.
In any case, I think Sakuâs question has been answered, this battery is not a good battery to purchase. As Simon G4TJC actually has had one of these and found it to be unsuitable for our purposes.
I remain very happy with my internal 2500mAh 3S LIPO battery in my FT-817. I am constantly looking for a LifoPO to replace it when it eventually gives up the ghost but the physical size appears to be a problem with the LifePOs I have found so far. Iâm still looking. In the meantime, I have bought a second 3S Lipo and have that charged with me as a spare in my bag on activations. Basically each battery will do three average activations but I change over after two, to be sure I donât run out of power (817 shuts off on low voltage) on that very special DX S2S contact!
Being an Internal battery, I have never had any issues with Airport Security, even the spare one in its original box and with itâs terminals taped up seems OK with them. I do follow the Lithium battery regulations about what can (or must) be carried in hand baggage and what can (or must) be in hold baggage only.
Buy a suitable battery when you arrive and toss it or donate it to a friend when you leave. Or leave there for next visit.
Post your battery ahead of time to your self at your destination address.
Order a new battery with your destination address for shipping. Donate, toss, post or carry it home.
Compton
VK2HRX
PS: I use option 1 for the CO2 cartridge on my inflating lifejacket when I go fishing in Tasmania as the CO2 cartridge isnt allowed on aircraft.
Just back after a trip to VK9N.
Declared that I was carrying a 55 Wh LiFePO4 battery in Melbourne on my way to Sydney. No problems with the airline staff, but the overseer at the X-ray screening was very interested in the battery & consulted his supervisor - 5-10 minute delay but all OK.
In Sydney, the airline rep at check in looked at the battery and said that I need not declare it, then gave me my boarding pass.
On return, no questions at all at NI airport. The X-ray operator at SYD was trying to figure out what was that odd object - the battery. I could see his screen so told him it was a 55 Wh LiFePO4 battery. He had another quick look then hit the conveyor go button. All done & no hassles.
I thought it safer to declare up front & explain on the way out from MEL & SYD, but did not bother on the trip home.
Activated Mt Bates VK9/NO-001 on 3 occasions: a mix of 20, 15 & 2 m. 2 activations late afternoon and one mid-morning. Contacts to ZL, VK 2, 3, 4, 5 & 7 plus one JA on 15. Lots of VKs on NI for the WIA AGM & Conference were happy to make contacts on 2 m.
Please be careful!
