Advice Needed : Maps

In reply to G4OIG:

activation. The only thing is that restricting the map just to the
ascent route doesn’t give you any info on the adjacent summits and
Paul and I usually end up debating which summit is which.

And what do you do if you get lost? I can imagine the faces of the MRT
as you expain that you hadn’t intended to wander off the edge of your map
in the fog …

Rick

Gerald - top tip - put one of your arms through as well as your head to carry a map case. It stops all the nonsense of the map blowing about and hitting you in the face.

John - it depends how much activating you will do and in how many areas. If it isn’t that much, then print-outs from online mapping sites may work out better. However, for the amount of walking Jimmy and I have done since 2002, then I am fairly confident that my OS 1:25000 maps have been a good investment.

I know some prefer the 1:50000 scale, but I find the detail lacking in those, even though they do cover four times the area per sheet. Some of the 1:25000 are good value with both sides of the sheet printed with mapping, and often you can pick them up on 3 for 2 deals at Waterstones (etc) and the OS online map shop.

I have collected these as and when I have been venturing into a new area for SOTA, and now have a library of 105 maps along the top shelf of my shack. I wouldn’t be without them. The OS 1:25000 mapping is much more enjoyable and satisfying to use then other types.

Don’t bother with the waterproof/coated maps as these are unnecessarily bulky and expensive. Just get yourself a good mapcase. I find the larger ones are the best

Tom M1EYP

In reply to M0RCP:

And what do you do if you get lost? I can imagine the faces of the MRT
as you expain that you hadn’t intended to wander off the edge of your
map

I did exactly that once in failing light Rick! I tend to use print outs for ease but luckily had the full OS map in my rucksack. The light was going and I knew I had to follow the wall down from the trig point - simples. Stupidly, I didn’t check the map before leaving the summit to save time and I followed the wrong wall at 90 degrees. I realised someway down that the lake I was seeing was the wrong shape and there was a rise ahead of me that shouldn’t be there! I dug out the OS map before rapidly retracing my steps back to the trig - it was new territory and I didn’t want to risk cutting across the rocky hillside to join my chosen route lower down.

I learned a few things that evening - I now also carry a wind up torch so that I can find and change head torch batteries more easily in pitch black (trying to replace them one by one and feeling for the positive end is not easy, especially in bog with the water rising over your boots if you stand in one place for more than 10 seconds)! So yes, print outs in a A4 wallet are great to shove in your pocket and save the OS map, but the OS map as backup could save you!

I think just about everything that could fail that evening did - the spare set of head torch batteries that I could find appeared to have almost discharged and were not much help. I knew at this point I was within 15 mins of the track/road but something wasn’t right and I couldn’t see far enough without the full light from my Petzl Myo XP to determine a safe way out from the boggy ground and loud running water I could hear - I knew I had to stay where I was just moving my feet. Again, very luckily, I was meeting up with a friend and amateur who was giving me a lift back to the car, so we spoke and I waited for him to come to me. I was less than 20 ft away from the correct path but should have crossed to the other side of the wall about 20 feet earlier - had I kept going I could have been up to my neck in bog apparently. I was so near the path but in quite a dicey situation - I was extremely fortunate that evening and my sincere thanks go out to a very good friend. I’m well used to walking at night and am very cautious, carrying quite a lot of extra ‘just in case’ equipment weighing down my rucksack but I still did not have all the options covered and made some very silly errors.

The moral of the story is to take back-ups for your back-ups and remember even on flat ground so close to safety you can still get into trouble! Always check the map before leaving the summit even when you think you know where you are going – that error probably cost me 30 minutes! Sometimes, it is best to stay where you are and ask for help/advice.

** Tom. Thanks for your tip - that was the main reason I stopped using the Ortlieb map case - the cord would twist and try to strangle me before slapping me in the face!

Ps. My Myo XP appeared to have developed some fault and was discharging batteries very rapidly. I went to Cotswold the following morning and replaced it with a Myo RXP (the old one now lives in the bottom of the rucksack without the batteries in just in case). I carry 2 spare sets of batteries, a small bright led torch and the small wind up LED.

I hope this helps anyone just starting out with SOTA.

73 and Safe descents!

Karen 2E0XYL

In reply to 2E0XYL:

Once went to incident where a map-case blew up and round, injuring the eye of the person carrying it. He lost the eye.

In reply to G6DDQ:
Well thanks very much for all your replies.

I will digest it all over the weekend.

Never knew about web based map sites allowing printing.

I will probably start there and see how I get on.

As has been said, it does’nt matter if they get soggy and ruined as I can just print another off next time.

I am also not used to the colours of the 1:25,000 scale, so I will also have a go at those and find out what I prefer.

Once again,

Thanks for all your help :slight_smile:

John

In reply to M0RCP:

And what do you do if you get lost?

Planning the day out starts before I get an itinerary together… I study the maps, read the reports of other activators and note any difficulties and / or recommendations, look at the terrain on Google Earth, etc

Some of the things that I try to do on the day:

  • Visually log key features of the route in to the summit and try to form a picture of it in my mind. Keep looking back the way I have come and note the layout of junctions between tracks.
  • Turn around when I get to the summit and take a mental picture of the departure route if I am returning the way I ascended - in misty conditions when on my own I have found it is useful to make a marker, for example a small pile of stones to provide guidance.
  • Check the bearing of the descent route against the map using a compass.
  • After setting off in poor visibility, if I have a GPS with me I check position before going too far - against the map if I haven’t taken a track on the ascent. If unsure retrace my steps and not attempt to cut across to where I think I should be.
  • When departure from a summit is not the way I arrived, take time to consider everything more fully.
  • Try not to follow others even if they have told me that they are going where I am heading.

I can imagine the faces of the MRT as you expain that you hadn’t intended to wander off the edge of your map in the fog …

…or more pertinently a white out which can occur quickly. It goes without saying that an eye should be kept on the weather at all times. There is no disgrace in abandoning an ascent or halting a descent until conditions improve. I have cancelled some summits when conditions have not been suitable.

As for wandering off the edge of the map… well, if I have gone that far without checking my position, I certainly deserve a lecture! :slight_smile:

Gerald G4OIG

In reply to G4OIG:

There is no disgrace in abandoning an ascent or halting a descent
until conditions improve.

This is the mark of a good mountaineer! Mountain Rescue reports are full of accounts of the misadventures of those who neglected to observe a proper prudence!

73

Brian G8ADD

In reply to G8ADD:
I would get the BMC mountain maps.
They cover a good area at a good scale and have high scale bits on the back for difficult areas.
They are lighter and easier handle than the laminate ones and are printed on plastic so are very tuff.

In reply to MW6DHN:

I have looked at these, they seem quite good but only cover the really popular areas at present. The 10% discount is worth having if you are a member of an affiliated club.

73

Brian G8ADD

In reply to G8ADD:

The BMC maps are just a range within what is available from http://www.harveymaps.co.uk/ there are other areas available listed under walking maps. They are also waterproof and they’re lighter than the OS maps. It can be quite strange using them if you’re used to the OS map colours which I know I am.

In reply to MW6SPX:

You can’t go far wrong with the OS maps on cloth, still using some of the one inch to one mile and have they a lot of usage left in them even though they were bought in the 1970’s.

In reply to G1STQ:

The Greek God of shopping has a handy outlet shop (with buy it now prices).
not always the latest publications, but good enough unless you are really going off the beaten track.
I.E. OS EXPLORER MAP OL17 SNOWDON / YR WYDDFA AREA (2008 issue) less than £4 inc postage.

In reply to G6DDQ:

Do you have to waterproof cloth maps? I’ve never seen such a thing, sounds handy. You could even used it as a hanky if need be :slight_smile:

In reply to MW6SPX:

I never have have had cause, but Nikwax have a map proofing product in their range for paper maps. There used to be a private laminator whose covering only added about one fold of thickness to the folded map.

I have seen people using ink jet printed map on waterproof paper and get very suprised when the ink runs in the rain

In reply to G6DDQ:
Hi all, can I just point out that whilst the mountains have changed little in the last 30 years, except for maybe fences and woodlands, the quality of the cartography has improved immensely.

If using OS 1:50K I would strongly suggest Landranger 2nd Series (Completed in the late 80’s I think). First series are photographic enlargements of the previous 1 inch maps. These inch maps were produced completely by hand and frequently only offer general “sweep of the land” information. In the mid 80’s I nearly walked off a cliff using a first series Landranger (it wasn’t shown and it was a big cliff!).

If using OS 1:25K I would also suggest the Explorer (and recently produced Outdoor Leisure series) with Orange covers, rather than the older Pathfinder series (green cover) and early Outdoor Leisure (yellow cover). Same applies to these - the older maps are full of significant inaccuracies.

Mapping has improved immensely in the last 15 years in particular, so I’d steer away from picking up “bargain” maps in 2nd hand stores.

Of course there are plenty of people who are happy with the limitations of their old maps and will continue to use them. But if you are starting out now, I suggest you go for newer ones.

(in my spare time I teach/assess mountain navigation professionally and for the Mountain Rescue team I belong to)

Gerald
MW6AQU

In reply to MW6AQU:

I don’t know if it is still there, but on the wall in the Clachaig Inn in Glencoe there was a copy of one of the earliest maps of part of Glencoe, it showed crags but had no contour lines at all (they were invented in the 1770’s by Charles Hutton whilst surveying Schiehallion for Maskelyne’s project to estimate the mass of the Earth) instead the level traverses were shown as lines of spot height differences up the slopes of the mountains, and with all those crags there were not too many of them. To the best of my knowledge contours are still derived by interpolation between level traverses and are probably as much art as science. What that means in practice is that in the mountains and if not on well marked tracks, you should be more dependant on your own route-finding skills than on little jiggles in contour lines. This lesson was brought home to many of us when the first of the Outdoor Leisure maps were issued for Snowdonia, in about 1979 I think. Some poor devil fell to his death on the Black Ladders between Carnedd Dafydd and Carnedd Llewellyn, trying to descend a parish boundary that in that first edition was marked in dotted lines that were all too similar to the dotted lines of footpaths. Nobody with reasonable experience would take more than a glance over the edge at the col to see that it is suicidal to descend, but if your faith in the map is stronger than your judgement then such incidents can happen.

73

Brian G8ADD

In reply to G8ADD:
Thanks for all your advice everyone.

I am going to try the mapshare websites and print off what I need for a few months and see how I get on.
Hope next week to buy a colour printer too, as my b&w one just does’nt do the map justice.

Cheers,

John

In reply to G1STQ:
If you can afford it a laser helps a lot.
They dont run in the damp as much.
Someone at PYB was printing them onto plastic to make them last even longer:
http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=waterproof+laser+paper&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=7280189089852658515&sa=X&ei=Dn8kT4jrHoGQ0AW_tZSUDw&ved=0CHYQ8wIwAQ