HI Dave
I do both and fortunately for now I can still rise to the challenge, but it won’t be that way for ever that’s for sure. When life and limb is threatened it is time to give up and concentrate on chasing and things that involve less risk.
Thanks for the QSO we had from G/ NP-010on 28th December last.
73 Phil
Yeah balancing risk with adventure needs my sensible head on! probably going a bit stir crazy as I haven’t been out since last November.
Heck, didn’t realise it had been that long!
73
Dave
(M6RUG)
Morning folks
Been watching this one with interest. 
Now no doubt Dave will add to what i am going to say and is most welcome.
I can see Dave and now learnt of his own disability certainly limits what he can do especially when it comes to activating summits. I can see he’s chomping at the bit to have a go and understanding why its one of those things you got to do if not at least once.
Changing of the rules i don’t see happening, but more likely to happen is a couple of people to get together and assist the said gent to the activation zone, one with easy reach of course or even join in a team effort. So he becomes part of a Sota team, again on a easy summit. Now doubt Dave would enjoy this during summer months when its warmer of course.
But advise any one doing this or taking this up to pay visit to Dave and let him get to know you to gain a trust. Then said party can set up the station & Dave gets positioned and joins in with out rules being broken.
The rules are set for what they are and makes Sota-ing more a challenge and we mostly abide by them. Its not rule changing we need but in Dave’s case assistance to be part of a team on easy summit.
Dave have to admire you for even taking up ham radio the way you did being deaf and blind let alone doing an activation. Good on you its your drive to get on keep it up.
Karl M3FEH
Morning Karl
I will deal with one first as it appears to be causing some problems.
NOWHERE within this thread have I asked for ANY rule to be changed for MY BENEFIT a fact already acknowledged by Andy in a previous post.
I don’t know therefore why the MT are getting frustrated with me on this point - but more on this later.
I asked, for clarification, about activating close to a car (and got it) as, quite simply, starting with an easy summit such as NW-070 would be a logical place to start. It is not only about confidence building but also about possibly taking several pieces of equipment and trying each one to see which works best. Lugging more gear up a challenging summit is unpractical but easy if a car was close by for storage.
While not guaranteed, a successful activation, would provide the inspiration to take the next step and increase the challenge bit by bit and only reaching the limit of balanced risk V the challenge.
Now let me deal with the specific challenge I face.
Confidence - Not seeing/knowing where you are can be quite unnerving - especially where the are potential hazards around - and there are many on summits.
Safety - Obviously, I would take/require a guide who not only would ensure my safety but would also need to ensure their own safety. As we all understand, safety on a hillside should be at the top of everyone’s priority list and I would need the confidence that a guide would ensure my safety. It is vital however that I also have the confidence that the guide will also look after their own safety needs as loosing the support of a guide to an injury would have additional implications for us both and any external support that was required.
An example of this actually happened last year. My wife and myself went up to Derbyshire and down the Blue Jon Mines.
We had all the safety talk about slip and overhead hazards and were fully understood. Right at the bottom of the cave there is an overhanging rock which my wife was trying to navigate me around when she slipped doing her ankle in.
The chaos this caused was immense, not only for the party we were with, but the group behind and the rescue team who had to carry her out and guide me out. Ambulance crew, trips to hospital, finding a way (many miles) back to our car after treatment and then driving home with an injury - not to mention paperwork and the immense embarrassment caused! - what a way to spend your 35 wedding anniversary. A painful lesson learned 
Doing this in a shack where I have control over my equipment and the environment is now a well practiced skill. But how do I translate this onto a hillside?
Obviously I would start with ease of operation in mind and channelised 2m is the logical place. Because of my hearing loss I would need isolation headphones for me to hear the chaser while keeping down outside noise such as the wind.
Obviously, I cannot log the QSO because of my sight loss so would require someone to do the logging for me. BUT how can they hear the QSO if I have isolation headphones on?
Before I even consider going on a hillside I need to find a solution whereby I can hear what is going on and the person(s) with me can also hear the TX/RX so that they can do the logging. I have found some suitable headset designed for noisy environments when used with PMR equipment. These are expensive, I would need 2 of these connected together and they would, probably need adapting - not something that I can do because I can’t solder! The other challenge in this respect is ensuring that they they would work with an HF rig too as that would be a natural progression.
Karl, as you can see from what I have written so far, rules changes are not required in my case and not requested. I was hoping to move on to equipment and adaptations later in the thread - but we got distracted. My request to clarify rules to activating from a car within the AZ was based on the the need to gain confidence and to have access to a range of equipment to see which works. The MT have clarified these rules and they are understood and accepted.
I have been overwhelmed by the offers of support (both here and in private) and I am moved by the care and consideration of the amateur radio community (including SOTA MT members) and I sincerely thank everyone.
Once I have sorted out what I need to successfully activate, I WILL have conversations with the many people who have offered to provide the hillside support in order that they understand what they are taking on 
Thank you again Karl - I think you will understand that I am not afraid of a challenge and thrive on overcoming obstacles.
Finally, I feel that I must address one point which I believe has been misunderstood causing unnecessary and unwanted friction.
I apologies, if any of my posts have been misrepresented. The reason I started this thread was not purely for my benefit. Indeed, a request for a list of accessible summits was sought for everyone’s benefit in the hope of encouraging others to take up the challenge.
As I have stated in this particular post I wanted to move on and talk about equipment and potential modifications/adaptations that may or may not be required to help a wide range of disabilities.
When clarifying the rules on activation’s from a car park (or other suitable hard standing area) within the AZ the MT stated that this could be done, but not from a car - which is totally acceptable and understood. It was however pointed out that it could be done from a motorised wheelchair.
Those who have to most severe mobility difficulties often use class III wheelchairs which, it appears are acceptable to the MT and quite rightly so.
A class III motorized wheelchair however can ONLY (to the best of my understanding) be driven by someone who holds a full driving license, and the wheelchair is subject to the same rules and regulations - tax, insurance MOT - as a car. Essentially there is no difference between a car and a class III motorised wheelchair ???
NOTE - I do not hold a driving license (and never have) and therefore this is my understanding and is not based on in depth knowledge or experience.
I requested an opportunity to discuss this, off line and away from this forum, so that I could better understand the rules and a potential anomaly within the rules and their interpretation. NOT for my benefit, but for the benefit of those who use such a class of wheelchair.
My request was turned down flat.
I am of the opinion that it is always best to have an open minded discussion in order that it can be established IF an anomaly does exist and requires consideration and possible clarification - either way.
The final decision remains with the MT - whatever that may be - and I respect that. I do feel however that I have a right to raise the question in the first place.
With kind regards to Karl and everyone
Dave
(M6RUG)
As has often been said on this reflector, there are many aspects to Amateur Radio and there is something for everyone to partake in and enjoy. Limitations on account of a disability will vary, but I would say to Dave, give activating a go if you can. Offers of help have been made and I hope you take them up.
For any years I had a weekly high speed CW meteor scatter sked with Giuliano I3LGP and we usually completed the contact in around 20 minutes using random meteor trails. I took over the sked from Ian G4YUZ who had run the same with Giuliano for several years. Giuliano is totally without sight and to operate on the mode had to attain an exceptional level of skill. The usual set up in the 80’s was based around taping the incoming pings and bursts of signal and listening to them slowed down during the subsequent transmission period. Of course you had to find the position on the tape. Sending was usually by a small memory chip (mine was 1k of RAM) which had to be programmed while receiving so the outgoing message was ready for the next transmission period. The outgoing message changed as more information was received. None of the computerised modes of today. It was hard enough for me to operate the mode, let alone doing it without sight. Unfortunately we had to cease operations on account of a QTH move and never got back into having regular skeds, but we remain friends to this day.
73, Gerald G4OIG
Hi Gerald
The offers of help have been very encouraging. If I am able to find solutions to the technical problems, I will be talking to the many who have offered support with a view to activating - from somewhere nice and simple to start with!
Thank you
Dave
(M6RUG)
My pleasure Dave. Looking forward to it - and the pint
Do we do the beer before or after the summit
Ahhh health and safety so it will have to be after or instead!
73
Dave
(M6RUG)
Dave, a couple of thoughts, speaking as somebody with moderate hearing loss (a hearing aid on each ear)…
Yes, the isolating ear phones sound like a good idea. That’s what I do with my FT-817 or MTR and it works well for me (except I could do with some more gain on the MTR, so stations less than S5 might not make it!). I probably appear a little rude to passing hikers when they get no reply to their comments though!
Usually I am also running a VX7 which has Yaesu’s funny waterproof 3.5mm socket, presenting a bit of a problem. And if anybody on 2m wants to attract my attention whilst I’m doing HF they need to shout really really loud!
What I would ultimately like to do is go Bluetooth for everything, but there is no prospect of the hospital giving me Bluetooth aids in the short to medium term.
Another option you could investigate is a neck loop (or typically nowadays a pair of small loops that rest over each ear) with your aids switched to ‘T’, with or possible without an additional amplifier to drive them. I did look at this briefly and it seemed a possibility, despite potential for interference from the RF.
Also you should be able to use shoes on your aids for direct input via an appropriate cable. Unfortunately my Danalogic aids don’t have suitable accessories as the suppliers concluded they were a bit rubbish. Maybe you’ll have more luck.
What I do for logging when I’ve got my paper log packed away is I record the QSO on my phone. In another thread ([Audio recording][1]) we talked about this and dedicated recorders. Obviously there is an issue here with the earphones or whatever being plugged in, but perhaps some combination with a Y adaptor could work out? These are readily available, to allow two 3.5-mm devices to be connected to one socket. So maybe your “wing-man” could plug in a second pair, or it could go straight to a recorder (but then there’s the issue of getting the TX audio).
73, Simon
[1]: Audio recording
You are clearly new to this game. Before AND after.
I won’t mention the name of a certain activator from Buxton who does is during as well
I will ponder this one for a while before a full response as there are quite a few variables. Hearing aids don’t work for me. The NHS ones are certainly better than they used to be and they are beneficial in a quiet room with a one on one conversation. Introducing another conversation, music, PSU or even a noisy fluorescent tube makes them totally useless!
The upper and lower frequency loss is one thing, the chronic tinnitus in combination with the other problems is another.
A spark of an idea - be back in a bit
73
Dave
(M6RUG)
Hi Simon
Hearing aids are only used when I am in a quiet room such as GP’s surgery and they work fine but they drive me mad outside of quiet environments.
In the shack I have an Elad FDM-S2 SDR receiver which appears as a sound card on the PC. I take the line out of the PC and into a pair of 40w amplified Logitech speakers. I plug the isolation headphones into the speakers. This gives sufficient amplification and external noise isolation and generally, works very well.
IQ0s and tuners can give you a nasty shock though! a couple of weeks ago I was working someone on a SOTA in Poland and a local ham - about half a mile away - called him with 400 watts into his beam pointing straight at me and the activator - took a hour or two to recover that one !!!
I have been using isolation headphones for quite sometime before I got my license and use them for TV, radio and music listening so I know they work. I keep promising myself a nice set of Heil Proset’s but haven’ managed to afford them yet. These give about 27db of noise reduction and utilising a foot PPT would freem my hands up for logging on the PC.
On the hills, for ease, It would be better to have someone to help with the logging. Recording the session is an option but getting the time down would be harder. Getting the time right - although not essential for claiming points - give a better chance of getting the confirmation “*” against the activator’s and chaser’s log. This is something I like partly for satisfaction and partly to provide evidence in the unlikely event a dispute arose.
I am not sure if a Heil Headset can be connected to a VHF/UHF rig but do know that they are OK on 817’s and the like ??? The alternative is something like the A-KABEL headset which are used for communications in very noisy environments. These will fit VHF/UHF rigs (that is what they are designed to do) but are flaming expensive!
That just leaves the question of the logger being able to hear the QSO for them to do their bit. Bluetooth is an option, as are Y adapters and cables and possibly PMR446 ??? I need a bright spark to answer that one
For ease, Software logging would be my choice. Currently I use SOTA CSV which automatically logs the time and can easily be set up with other variable parameters. Once back in the shack nothing extra is required after the log is uploaded to the database and imported into my main logging software. I wouldn’t be able to transfer a paper log to PC and errors would likely take place.
I have often wondered my many activators have got to the bottom of a hill and realised there notepad and log is still at the top?
Thanks, you have given me some ideas to develop
Dave
(M6RUG)
I won’t mention the name of a certain activator from Buxton who does is during as well
I’m not from Buxton! 
I know just what you mean Dave. But you might find using them with direct input (inductive loop or shoe input) and no microphone makes this a very different experience. Whether or not the mic input gets switched off can be down to how the aid is configured, so you may need to ask your audiologist if you want to try this option but it’s not already set for this. I think the aids should hit limiting if blasted with QRO, so it could help in a situation such as you describe, in the shack as well as on a hill. Have a word with a proper audiologist about technologies to try. I wouldn’t expect a GP to have any great depth of knowledge in this area.
I have on occasion found myself trying to decode weak CW only to realise that it was tinnitus. At least it didn’t make any sense - so far!
If you record the audio (certainly with a phone - don’t know about a dedicated recorder) you could figure out the QSO times from the file time stamp. Or just ask your QSO partner to tell you the time I guess.
Simon
LOL that is funny!
I sometimes wonder in having tinnitus is in fact beneficial. You naturally try and tune the weird noises out of your head and learn to concentrate your brain to hear what you need to hear. When I get in a pileup on a noisy band, using that skill - even unconsciously - could help to complete a contact? that doesn’t mean that I would suggest Amateur Radio Operators smacking themselves around their head when they see a spot on SOTAWatch
I will look at this and have a chat to the audiologist next time I see her.
The other problem I find with hearing aids is that I can’t see well enough to put the batteries in
Dave
(M6RUG)
I wonder, do I need a bigger backpack ???
No Dave, better to leave the beer in the cool box in the car - something to look forward to AFTER the activation. Beer before an activation is certainly not my preferred tipple - Lucozade is where it’s at as far as I am concerned, especially at 05:00 when I need a boost before the first hill of the day.
(Other energy drinks are available… taxed in 2018?)
Yes, puts sensible head back on
That is normally when I go to bed!
The cost of SOTA activating is going up 
Morning Dave
First of all sorry for delayed response to yesterday as little time for radio etc yesterday, till this morning. Thanks for you response and discussion is finally under way and looking at over riding problems. You will encounter.
Distance from actual car to me provided your in the AZ and not connected to the car in anyways physically such as its being used to collect you power supply off or even supporting your antenna can be easily set up feet away with NO physical connection. Should be by rights OK and with in rules from what I can gather and yet many activators drop off the car and march miles to the summit.
When you activating having said Sherpa as we now call them can set up your station in a way good for you and the joint operator to assist you in logging etc. there are ways and means of doing this no doubt you will sort out and learnt with your Sherpa a non verbal communication as no doubt out share with your wife. Just basic things etc.
Now may be as a suggestion instead of doing an actually activation may be meet up with some one. Is to get a feel of whats going on and learn the environment about you gain experience from this a little day trip, so you can work out in head what you can endure etc. There are ways and this is Sota ways of doing things gaining the experience to progress forwards in what you want to do.
No doubt one day we will hear you on air from a summit, Look forwards to and peoples are going to be little extra decorum with you. Remember the activator is in control.
Karl