60m freqs for SOTA

So you don’t advocate caution?:grinning:

Actually the Council have not yet got around to moving the storm wrack from Doris so walking down my street needs a bit of concentration!:wink:

If you’re in a comfortable warm shack, using a radio with a decent display, big buttons, and ideally dual receivers, then sure, it’s trivial.

It’s a bit different on a cold wet summit, with an FT-817 with a tiny display and tiny buttons, stuffed into a polythene bag to try to keep it dry, sat on the ground probably struggling to operate with gloves on, one hand holding a microphone whilst the other is scribbling a log and trying to make it legible, checking every so often that the antenna hasn’t blown down etc etc. And all this in the knowledge that a single trivial mistake could lead to making an illegal out of band transmission.

On top of that, it’s obvious that (notwithstanding R5 signal reports) some chasers can barely make out what I’m saying - if they struggle to pick up a signal report what chance that they will actually hear and understand “listening five point three five four”? They’re likely to call where I’m not listening, then the band police will chime in to correct them, but I’ll be oblivious to it as I’m listening somewhere else. It could turn into chaos and I could miss QSOs that I would otherwise have made.

I might try split next time I’m operating under reasonable conditions, but it is very likely that I will be discouraged if no QSOs result.

How many potential customers are there? In early March I activated 13 summits on 5MHz. Can anybody reading this in a country without access to the UK frequencies tell me that they listened for long enough that they would have picked up an announcement of split operation and taken advantage of it?

Martyn M1MAJ

I can’t (looking at it the other way round) say I’ve listened to any out-of-UK-band CW activations (while chasing from home) on the off-chance they might decide to listen somewhere within the UK bits…

…so I’ll be interested to see whether you get any affirmative answers.

Before the advent of WRC-15, Spain had an assortment of spot frequencies allocated to them - almost none of which coincided with allocations in the UK and other European countries. The Spanish operators were adept at working “split”. They would simply call CQ on one of their authorised frequencies and indicate which frequency (or frequencies) they would be listening on. There was no problem, either on SSB or CW. Easy peasy!

73,
Walt (G3NYY)

Of course when we self-spot we can also quote which frequency or frequencies we are listening on. I guess it just needs practice.

How about a 60m split activation hour, where we restrict ourselves to only having split contacts (whether S2S or Activator to Chaser) ?? Then afterwards have up to an hour for “normal” (same frequency) contacts?

Which other (European) countries apart from the UK have a 60m allocation other than (or not including) the WRC15 frequencies? Should the US be included? Would propagation allow 15w EIRP European stations to be heard in NA during an EU day or would that be too much to hope for?

Ed.

To the best of my knowledge the following countries have channels outside the WRC15 band: Finland, Ireland, Portugal, Czech Rep., Sweden.

The following countries have a wide band allocation including the WRC15 band: Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Slovakia, Croatia, Hungary and the Netherlands.

I have had one transatlantic SSB contact using my FT817 and a G5RV doublet antenna, this was in the early hours of the morning. I would say therefore that it would be possible to do it in “unsociable hours” but it would not be easy.

No, never do it in the warm etc shack. Done it a few times out on field day contests. Cold, wet, windy etc etc. I dont find it difficult at all. I’m suprised others do to the point where they caution against it.
Tons of ways of making an illegal transmission with modern radios. Wrong mode on an HF band for example.

Compton

Inconsiderate, unhelpful and unpopular but never illegal in UK.
Quite different from transmitting between our awkward bandlets.
73,
Rod

I am not familiar with the regs in the UK. In Australia FM on the popular SOTA HF bands would see you having to wide a signal for your licence conditions. There was a recent example of some operators in VK doing this, FM on 40m. Perhaps I am wrong and you are allowed to do it?

It certainly seems that they way the 60m band is set up in the UK is awkward. Let’s hope that doenst happen to us down under when we are given (hopefully) 60m privileges.

Compton

[quote=“VK2HRX, post:49, topic:8926”]set up in the UK is awkward.[/quote]All goes back to it starting off as a number of channels scattered about the band. Things have changed a bit since then, and now it’s in various small sections of band, but still scattered about. That makes it rather too easy to stray out of band if you’re not paying attention. Of course, the primary user of the band, who is presumably most likely to get upset when we stray out of our allocated bits, also probably (yes, I’m speculating wildly here) has access to some fairly sophisticated RDF kit…

Hi Compton,
The spectrum plan 2017 published by the ACMA at the start of this year indicates the IARU WRC15 band frequencies (5351.5 to 5366.5 KHz) so once the band is released it wil be the Internationally agreed band not bandlets or channels. The question remains as to when the ACMA will give Amateurs in Australia access. It is also not clear whether only Advanced licencees or also Standard licencees will get access and whether an NOV will be required.

http://www.acma.gov.au/~/media/Spectrum%20Engineering/Information/pdf/ARSP%202017%20-%20with%20general%20information%20pdf.pdf



I think you’re missing the point. Yes, there are lots of things you can do wrong, but they are very unlikely mistakes to make if you are moderately competent.

The issue I am pointing out is that under the particular circumstances we are discussing, there is a specific mistake which I personally feel it would be very easy to make, owing to the way in which the A/B and SPL buttons work on the FT-817. You need two button presses to flip between two acceptable combinations of tx and rx frequencies, and the wrong sequence could lead to a state in which the tx frequency is one that is not legal in the UK. Perhaps others never make mistakes; I personally think it would be risky for me under typical summit conditions.

Out of band operation on 5MHz in the UK is a sensitive issue at the moment, and we are all urged to be exceptionally careful.

The risk largely goes away if you just run continuously in split mode and never monitor your own transmit frequency. However as a QRP SOTA station I don’t think I’m likely to have a big pile up (remember that I’ll almost certainly already have worked the UK regulars on a UK channel). I think I have a duty, especially on a band where I’m only a secondary user, to monitor the frequency I’m transmitting on reasonably often. It is the process of frequent flipping back and forth between split and not split that I feel is risky if one of the frequencies concerned is not legal to transmit on.

Martyn M1MAJ

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You are perfectly correct, Martyn. The risk is there, and it is up to us to be aware of it and deal with it, but I don’t think it is a bigger risk than the more familiar risk of operating simplex outside our allocated bandlets.

Yeah, I have the edges and appropriate CoAs in rig memories, but the UK 5MHz allocations are sufficiently fragmented that I prefer to have the paperwork in front of me if I’m straying any much further than 5398.5 and 5403.5.

I must be. I’m staggered that an oeprator would transmit with out knowing what the VFO is set to transmit on and know where that frequency fits with their license privlages… even with the influences of ice, wind and fire. I’ll leave you with it.

Compton

I guess you are not familiar with the early symptoms of exposure. They include clumsiness, apathy and poor judgement. I can easily understand why somebody who is finding the cold a bit of a battle would do something so uncharacteristic.

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Yep, been there dun that.

Have you never had that experience of making a conscious rational decision not to do something a fraction of a second after you just did it?

It is often shortly followed by utterance of an expletive.

Martyn

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All too often!:grinning: